- Hi, friends. We're about to get started with Episode 16 of The Cerebrations Podcast.

- A few episodes ago, I invited Kristian Bouw to speak about the Metaverse. Today, I'm going to focus on another trendy topic that has been in the news over the past few years. We'll talk about Web3 and NFTs. However, in true form to our podcast's overarching team, we'll focus on customer engagement and explore ways these trends and the underlying technology can benefit marketing executives.

- My guest for this discussion is Bryan Georges. He is a great friend of mine with whom I go back many, many years. Bryan and I lived in the same dorm in our first year in college at the University of Richmond. We took a few classes together there, too. A decade later, we ran into each other for our MBA studies at INSEAD, and years later, we ran into each other again in London when I briefly lived there. From dorm rooms to school libraries to the London tube, Bryan and I have known each other for decades.

- It's a real pleasure to host him today and hear about his adventures in the Web3 world. Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, allow me to invite Bryan Georges to the virtual stage.

- Hi, Bryan, how are you?

- Good, good, recovering from a cold, but surviving until the holiday break.

- Yeah, I know, I really appreciate you joining me. I know that you've been feeling under the weather. I, myself, have also been a little iffy in the past couple of days. So to everyone listening to this podcast episode, I apologize on both Bryan's and on my behalf for our voices. We wish we could sound a little bit better, but it's that time of the year, so we appreciate your understanding. Another housekeeping thing before we get started with the actual discussion, as always, I have a little call-to-action at the bottom for everyone who's watching the podcast, they can see it, but, anyway, everyone can go to cerebrations.info to learn a little bit more about Bryan, and, also, watch interviews with the other podcast guests that I've had so far. Cerebrations.info is the website for this podcast. So thank you very much for visiting, and don't forget to subscribe when you go there. So, Bryan, I have a lot of things that I want to discuss with you today. This is an interesting topic. It's been in the news a lot in the past few years. I personally think that some people understand it well. Others pretend that they understand it, then many, many don't even have a clue what it is. So I wanted to record that so that, you know, we kind of level the grounds. We have some sort of understanding of what it means. This podcast is meant for business audiences, mostly sales and marketing executives, but, also, in general, any other executive for the company, and I just hope that this is gonna be helpful for everyone to understand the topic and how it may actually help them in their day-to-day work and life, but just to get started, you represent an organization that's involved in activities that are similar to this topic. So tell me a little bit, what's the elevator pitch of your company and how does it level up customer engagement?

- Great, yeah, so first of all, so I'm the co-founder and CEO of iiNDYVERSE. So we are... The best way to explain, we're a native messenger chatbot that engage and rewards customers with digital collectibles. That's where Web3 comes in, but we reward customers based on how much they interact and spend with the brands they love within those chatbot experiences. So our mission, in a sense, is where we're using collectibles or NFTs or blockchain, really, as a form of like brand reputation and identity. So you, as a fan of a particular brand, can really prove how much you engage and love a certain brand and like what aspects of that brand really resonates with you. For example, if you're a Burberry customer, you're into Burberry trench coats. If you're in Gucci, you like their belts, for example, and really have like digital representations of those, let's say, like preferences that can be used across other platforms.

- I see, okay. So you mentioned a few terms here, a few buzzwords that people may have heard. Some may understand, may not understand. I'll mention a few examples in a few minutes, but, for now, can you just maybe define collectibles, NFTs? What do you mean by these?

- Yeah so a collectible is, essentially, so the technology behind a collectible is, obviously, its own thing, but a collectible is something that you can own that just represents something about, in our case, an experience, right, or a thing. So for example, you can get rewarded with a collectible just for standing up for a newsletter, right, or purchasing your first T-shirt from a brand, right, or spending over 1,000 a month. It could be for attending an event or going in store and purchasing something. It could be anything, but it's just an artifact that represents an action that you've actually performed. Technically, what it represents is a non-fungible token. So it's, actually, a unique Cryptographic proof written on a blockchain, so I'm getting very jargon heavy now, but what's beautiful about that is that you can prove the providence and the ownership of that token, and it's available for anyone from any other business or platform to verify. So all of a sudden, this brand, I can prove I'm a, let's say I'm a big fan of Gucci. I've spent or interact with Gucci in these many ways, and here's a Cryptographic proof in the form of a branded thing, whether it's a badge, an emblem, or even a piece of art, right, that can have meaning and value for people within and outside the Gucci ecosystem.

- So you could actually exchange it for other collectibles so you can sell it. Is that the point that it can prove your ownership of that?

- Yeah, so, obviously, NFT started off very heavily in the art space, and I would say very heavily in the speculative space in the Crypto world. So the underlying technology blockchain is common across what iiNDYVERSE does in the Crypto space, but NFTs, so far, at least for the last couple years, were very much seen as speculative assets, even though, legally, they tried to avoid that. So the idea was, okay, if I buy this one NFT with this piece of art, is someone else willing to pay 10 times more for it over a period of time, right? So that's where the trading and stuff kept came in and the utility was, really, in a speculative value and, potentially, the rarity of this digital thing. For us, we're looking at it differently at iiNDYVERSE. So we see these tokens, these NFTs, these collectibles being more as a proof of receipt, I would say.

- I see.

- Of, as you can say, "Okay, now, that I can prove, irrevocably, that I'm a Gucci customer, how can that create value for me in another ecosystem?" So for example, a lot of brands we speak to claim in between 30 to 50% of their customers are gamers, but they have no idea which 30 to 50%. Statistical, like research-wise, says 59% of consumers are gamers, but no brand can identify which 59%. So what we do through our chatbot channels, we can actually gamify experiences where we can encourage people through quests to do things like connect your Roblox account, connect your Epic Games account, and for doing that, you can get dropped a collectible, right, and that collectible is now a proof that, one, I'm a customer of, let's say, Gucci, but, two, I'm also a Fortnite customer.

- I see, cool.

- If Fortnite can see there's one million of these collectibles in the market, maybe there's an opportunity for Gucci to sell digital clothing inside Fortnite.

- I see, okay, yeah, all right, that makes sense, that makes sense. So we'll talk a little bit more about gamification a little bit later. So I'll leave this for them, but thanks for providing this overview. So my next question relates to Web3. You mentioned Web3, and maybe we should define Web3 as well, 'cause you defined collectibles and NFTs, but let's do that, too, but, you know, there's a lot about it. What's the good, what's the bad, what's the ugly? Like how would you describe this whole environment, digital environment?

- Oh, wow, yeah. I think, so I started, I would say, Web3/blockchain probably in 2015, more from a technology perspective versus a Crypto world, and I differentiate the two quite heavily culturally. Right, Crypto, to me, is all about trading, speculating, trying to make as much money as possible from Bitcoin, Ethereum, all coins, and NFTs, right? It's a huge culture specifically around that, right? Whereas the underlying technology, which is blockchain technology, actually is an open platform that allows multiple businesses to actually interoperate using the blockchain as a one source or ledger of truth. Right, so when I think about Web3 and what that means, it's a very convoluted term, to be fair. I can't even pinpoint one thing that defines Web3 over the next. Obviously, it's considered the next iteration of the web, and it's meant to be a decentralized web where data and assets is installed in siloed databases owned by Facebook or Google is actually available to all. It's also meant to be a place where we move from renting stuff to owning stuff. So, for example, if you upload something on Facebook, on Instagram, you give away the rights to that completely, right? If you upload music to Spotify, there's probably some deals and terms in terms of how that revenue is shared, whereas what blockchain and Web3 tends to do is you can actually put that same media onto decentralized, essentially, a database and prove ownership of it and create your own models in terms of how you want to share, distribute, and monetize that media. You have a sense of decentralization ownership that never was fully available at that scale in the Web2 traditional world.

- I see, I see, okay so-

- So that's a good-

- No, sorry, go ahead.

- I say that's a... I was just gonna say that's the good of it, right?

- Yeah.

- I think just to continue, I think what's... So the technology's amazing. The decentralization and the fact that no one company can control the fate of a business or a brand or a media is amazing, but I think what ended up happening, it became very much a money grab, right? So I think all the news headlines are typically around NFT prices go soar into one billion or NFT scams 'cause there's no real form of proper identity checks and knowing people, knowing customers, for example. So there's lots of fraud, lots of money laundering, and that just created an environment where people got into it, purely, as a get-rich-quick scheme, and I think that took over the whole culture in terms of, at least, the feeling you get when you hear about Crypto and Web3, right? Like it's a get-rich-quick scheme. So I think that's bad/ugly, but what we're seeing now, especially with the follow-up with FTX and other funds as well, where they actually got, well, not, well fraud was exposed, some people actually go into jail, for example. We're seeing the wave of more quality technology, more quality startups in this space who actually are staying true to the good sides of Crypto and blockchain and Web3 starting to emerge. I think in the next wave, you'll start seeing things that have more meaningful use cases that actually makes sense for Web3, makes sense for decentralized architectures, and makes sense for ownership based models versus before, whereas more like let's pump a very good story, let's get a bunch of people to believe it, let's launch a token and try sell as much as quickly as possible before it crashes, you know? So I think that transition is happening.

- All right, so if I understand it correctly, in a way, the market is just getting more mature. People are learning a little bit better.

- Yeah, the market is getting more mature, fingers crossed.

- People learning better how to determine fraud versus real, and there are better use cases, there's more of that, more thought going into it.

- Yeah, exactly, more regulation as well, right?

- More regulation.

- And then more, yeah, more brands, more regular companies are starting to use it for their use cases as well.

- I see, okay, so I mentioned earlier that I have a few examples, and a couple of weeks ago, I went to Art Basel in Miami. Obviously, it's one of the largest events in the world about art, but there's always a technology component. At least in the past few years, there's always been, you know, all kinds of additional topics that are being discussed there, and NFT, obviously, was gonna be one of those. I can't claim that I saw every single example of NFT. It's Art Basel, it's impossible. Everything is going in parallel across Miami Beach, Miami, and all kinds of other adjacent places. So I don't think anyone is capable of being at all the parties at the same time, but I saw a few things, and I brought some kind of like digital artifacts with me that I wanted to showcase here and hear your opinion, Bryan. As someone who's actually spending a lot of time in this space, how do you interpret this? Let's unpack a little bit what these mean. I understand that they may not necessarily be what iiNDYVERSE does per se, but, in a way, you know, just to kind of trying to understand the broader trend here. So without further ado, I will swap out here. So let me explain very quickly what I saw. So, basically, one was at the actual Art Basel at the conference center, and they had artists in residence. There was a section dedicated to that, and when you go there, you see arts and art installations like in any other place that you expect that's Art Basel, but, also, there were a few screens that get barcodes to them, and I thought that this is just a regular QR code that you scan to get more information about the artist and the art and, you know, what they're doing in residence. Someone approached me and basically said, "Hey, you know, this is an NFT. So do you have the proper accounts to access it?" And I said, "No," and that started a full conversation there, but, basically, long story short, when you scan the QR codes, and then you can link it to a special online account that you can create, you do have, and, basically it's showing on the video loop that I've put here, you access these arts after that, the digital tokens that are there for you in the accounts, and there's plenty of information underneath when you click on them to find out about the art and the artist, et cetera, et cetera. So that's one example. The other example is from Wynwood, which is a neighborhood in Miami, for those that haven't been there, and it's all about art, again, mostly street art. There's a lot of, you know, street art all over the place, a lot of parties, and we were walking down the street, and we saw that, you know, like a party that was advertising NFTs, and we went in to see what's going on there, and, basically, everyone that went into the party would receive what they call Lo-Fi Noggles. So they're, basically, think about 'em as glasses that have some pixelated transparent, semi-transparent film that kind of pixelates everything that you see through them, and they also gave us collectible cards with a bunch of pixelated cartoons that are supposedly valuable collectibles, and they're called Nouns. So I spoke for a long time, but I just wanted to kind of provide some overview of what I saw. So, Bryan, you know, tell us what you think about it. Like how do we interpret it?

- Yeah, firstly, I think it's great, it's fun, right? It's engaging. It gets people interested. I feel like the experience you defined, you talked about, it didn't feel like Web3 got in the way of it, meaning like when you scanned that QR code, did you feel a lot of friction in terms of having to collect this piece of artwork or was it pretty seamless? And those are things I care about the most with these experiences. Curious to hear what you thought about that.

- Well, actually, yeah, I mean, it asked me if I had a Phantom account, and, obviously, I didn't, and then it was interesting that the person who came to help me, I guess he worked there as one of the Art Basel curators, whatever, and he said, "Hey, you don't need to download the app now if you don't wanna care about that," but you just use your Google account. So, basically, you can log into this website where the artifacts will be held, and you can just either create a new account or you can just connect your Google, like in many other places. You can log in with your Google account. So that was, you know, except for the fact that I didn't really wanna associate my Google identity with that, but, you know, TipLink, the website itself looks pretty legit, and, basically, that's where they are right now, and I can go access them. I go to TipLink, I log in with my Google, and I see these artifacts. So was it the most streamlined experience for the uninitiated? It still had some questions, and It took a little extra steps, but it wasn't that bad, I think. The rest, with the glasses, I don't know what to do with that.

- Exactly, let's get into that one. So the question in my mind is, also, why Web3, and what to trade off for the value you get from Web3, right? And when I'm listening to these use cases, I can't answer either question right now besides it's a nice cool marketing story about NFTs, right? So which could be enough in a sense, right? So I find a lot of times there's a very deep Web3 community that just loves collecting stuff, right, and so Nouns is a very popular, well-respected project. So collecting Noun-like assets can be very cool. Is it gonna be worth something one day or not? Who knows, right? But when you collect it, it's yours, right, and no one can take that away from you, and some people see inherent value in that. Now, for someone who's not part of that Web3 community to go through a process of linking a Google account, which is probably one of the best practices in terms of ease of or less friction for what end goal is a opaque thing, right? You don't quite get it. So, to me, that value to that experience isn't clear at all. We've actually taken a step further. Like we've gone to a process where you don't even need to actually share an email to collect something as a reward. It's just baked into chat flow, which I think is where the market's gonna head to. It should feel as easier just receiving an image, you know?

- I see.

- So that's what we're going to, but it's funny because I think like the glasses are cool. It's a very good, again, marketing story. It's tied to their brand about being pixelated, and one thing we see a lot of times is forget the technology. The most important thing is who are your customers? What types of stories are you gonna tell your customers to get them to engage? And, ultimately, create value spend with your brand, right? And then once you figure that all the questions, how can Web3 make that even better? And that last bit, I haven't seen from the use cases you've given, which is my question. Like, usually, again, going back to what I explained with Web3, it's like how does this collectible either have some intrinsic or speculative value in the future, if I'm such, if I'm that type of consumer. Most consumers aren't, right? They're not into something for speculative value. They're into something for immediate gratification or some level of utility. If it does not speculative value, then what's that immediate utility? Yeah, and I think that's not clear besides having a cool experience. Maybe that's enough, but you don't need Web3 to have a cool pixelated glasses so.

- Yeah, well, I think, for me, the way I see it, and I don't want this to sound like I'm disparaging anyone that goes to Art Basel, but a lot of the people that go there are not necessarily the most technology savvy people. They care about art, but they want to be part of a new trend. They want to, you know, feel like they're understanding what's going on in the broader world, and I think that's their way to touch something that's a little different from them, touch virtually, of course, 'cause this is all digital, right? It's not touchable.

- Touchable.

- But that's the way to put their, you know, fingerprints on that digitally, and. in a way, some of the art that I saw by the artists in residence at the Art Basel Conference Center was pretty cool. I probably would've taken a picture of it otherwise, and that's the way of actually having a high resolution one.

- Right.

- That I can show, and, you know, I was told that it's limited edition. Like it doesn't say exactly how many copies there are, but, actually, one thing that happened is as we were trying to scan one of those, something went wrong, and I couldn't scan it the first time around, and I tried to scan it a few more times, and, at one point, there was a limit. It basically said, you know, "Take a break. You can't keep scanning this." So, yeah, I think there is some limit to it. So that's how I see it. The glasses, I, you know, from a purely marketing perspective, I think they were pretty cool 'cause there were a bunch of people that were walking down the street with these glasses. They had no idea what they were wearing, but they were just walking with these glasses. Yeah, they're cool.

- Yeah, so it's cool so to me-

- All right, well-

- Yeah. I just got.

- Yeah, go ahead.

- This is the last thing so I think lots of it is in the stories and the experience, right and I think what we're seeing, going back to like the virtualization of things, is there's definitely a cultural trend where those lines between physical and virtual are being blurred, right, and you just have to look like, right now, in terms of just the virtual economy for like buying in-app game items, right, like in Fortnite or addressing Roblox. It's 145 billion markets.

- Yeah, yeah.

- But we haven't figured out to bridge those two worlds at all, right? Like how can I express myself, like not just in a virtual world, but some things I like in my physical world that I like to translate to a virtual environment, not always, right? Some people wanna be completely different, but there is an intersection, and I think these types of experiences are trying to start figuring out how do we merge these worlds and what do those worlds look like and become more blended or more augmented.

- Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I agree. Even back in the day when I was in educational technology, and we were looking at gamification for educational purposes, and, you know, the best selling content was, basically, always from in-app purchase perspective where all the sheets and all the different things that you can do, like no one really wanted to buy actual levels and content. They wanted to buy the extra characters, the extra two boxes, or whatever you may have as a character, and then even, at that time, we were asking, "Okay, so how do we connect that to some physical stuff that we can sell as well?"

- Exactly.

- We didn't find the answer at that time, and it looks like this answer is still evasive to a lot of brands.

- Yeah, so to boost the experimenting, yeah. I think it's still work in progress.

- All right, well, thanks, Bryan, this was great. Let me go back to our normal format now and, you know, continue with my next question. I mean, we talked a little bit about game design earlier, like we just started talking about gamification even a few minutes ago. So how does game design psychology level customer engagement, then what does this have to do with what we were discussing so far?

- Yeah, so right back to storytelling and psychology, right, so a lot of people, when they hear game, when they listen or hear the word game design or gamification, they immediately think, "Okay, is this some game I need to play?" But that's what we mean. We actually are talking about the psychology where it's proven where if you give someone a little bit of a challenge and a clear goal to achieve, they're more likely to engage to achieve that goal and go through those challenges, but the key psychology is each challenge, at least the first challenge, needs to be easy, and then you can make it progressively more difficult to keep people engaged, right, and then in between, you can have little cheats, little hacks to skip to actually win without actually going through the full effort, right, if it gets too challenging, and then the last of game, last piece of game psychology, it's very important to have instant feedback and instant gratification. If you accomplish something, the rewards should be immediate, right, and that creates a psychology where people engage more and more. So we see, like research has shown, you can see 10 to 15 times more engagement by implementing game psychology, and everything from pure gaming, so we work with game producers, to anything like education for example, right, and there are lots of other use cases as well that shows these things actually cause people to interact and do more with a system or with a brand. So when we talk about game psychology, it's a process, and that's the first thing, and for us, we worked very closely with creators and brands who have stories to tell, right? So, again, as you go through any game that you've played, everything from maybe Candy Crush to Fortnite or Zelda, is always a story to tell, and that's really important. That gets people engaged, and the last, so we work with people like Jordan brand, with Nike, for example, and others, and so brands who have personal story can do a really good job in getting people initially engaged, but then it's how do you level that up by using game psychology? And we've seen a mix of game psychology, but, particularly, in applications that are interactive where customers already live, so for example, WhatsApp SMS have huge benefits. So because you're already in there, and it's an immediate two-way interactive process, so you can automate using AI or just regular chatbots. You can actually automate those gamification rules within those conversational experiences, and compared to email, for example, we've seen engagement rate shoots up by five to 10 times what you would see in the email. So it really does work in terms of getting people to interact more, and then as people interact, you can actually understand more based on what they're seeing and what they're doing. That gives you a much level of like hyper personalization in terms of who your customers are, what their preferences are, and what their interests are as well as a result.

- Interesting, when you mentioned that as you chat more, you'll learn more about the people on the other side. I mean you can do it for personalization, as you mentioned, but is it, also, I mean, like any other marketer, I would like to buy data about my customers, so I can, also, you know, from a purely market research perspective, understand what's going on, and segment things, and forget about having a more personalized messaging, but just, basically, understand why people buy certain things or why people care about certain things. So are you seeing that, too, in that business with iiNDYVERSE or anyone else also trying to kind of start collecting huge amounts of data that will be sellable to marketers in the future?

- Yeah, so we've taken a stance where we don't want to sell customer data. So we focus heavily on first party data. So if you're a brand working with us, we'll get as richer insights as possible from your existing, let's say, fan base or customer base. So we see some use cases with one leading, let's say, sports company where they're actually using our channels purely for qualitative insights, right? So they actually encourage people to upload pictures of fashion trends in different regions across the globe, and they reward them based on how much they upload. So they've actually been able to feed that back into their product and marketing strategies in terms of what people are interested in, right? And then we have-

- Instead of sending scouts to clubs and raves, they actually use that self-generator.

- It's a scout net. It's a scout network, yeah, yeah.

- Yeah.

- It's not too far off. So, yeah, so we're seeing that work quite well in that sense beyond just a pure let's commercialize, let's monetize our customer base. You're seeing it as let's learn from our customer base. So that's how we're using it, but to be clear, we're not selling that data to any third parties, but what we do see as an opportunity though is we can solve what we call like the core thought problem. It's a phrase, I forgot who actually wrote that book now. We might have to edit it in later on, but, essentially, what we could do is once we understand the customer base large enough, and we have these models in place in terms of how to engage, and those models could be reusable, right? So even though you might not have shared certain insights with brand C and your engagement branding and brand B, our models can help, can better understand how best to engage Emil to actually buy something from brand C based on our learnings and how that model has been trained based on your interactions with previous brands. So that's where we see it working, so not sharing raw data, but, actually, helping those models improve how to actually get the most value from Emil.

- I see, okay, so, you know, you mentioned getting the most value. So how do you measure success in a segmented customer engagement? How do brands actually measure their ROI?

- Yeah, the different phases, so the first step is just the top of the funnel, really. So most brands we've come across, they don't have a interactive chat channel as a core and customer engagement channel. They're just about getting people to onboard to that. So that's what I was talking about earlier compared to TipLink. Instead of entering your email address, you just text a phone number. Through that process, we can verify it's a real person behind that phone number. We give you an image to claim your first collectible, you're done. So we see a two times increase in success rates versus like email signups just doing that. So our first metric is onboarding. We get 90% onboarding rates, 98% marketing opt-in rates as well from that first step, and the second step is then, "Okay, are you really engaging more?" So we look at engagement rates, whether it's replies, whether it's clicks, et cetera, and we've seen that shoot up from like 10%, let's say, on email to 70% through our channels, and then the last thing is conversions. We have no control right now on the final purchase process, but we've seen conversion rates between 20 to 28% for some campaigns that we launched compared to like less than 1% for email. So, again, those are measures of success, and, lastly, just like NPS, I got customers actually enjoying these interactions. What can we improve?

- Great, I mean it's nice that you're able to still connect those things to tie them back to measures that are common language for every marketer so they can understand that part, and, you know, the numbers that you're mentioning, the results that you're seeing are very impressive. So that's definitely something for people to consider. Bryan, it's been a pleasure speaking. I just wanted to ask you. As my last question, I always ask this question to everyone who comes to my podcast. What are the key takeaways about Web3 and customer engagement and everything we discuss here? What would you like anyone who listened or watched this podcast episode to remember in two, three months down the road?

- All right, so I think, yeah, Web3, first takeaway is why Web3? Like are you using it because it's a cool technology or does it really help you with your business objectives, especially in our case with marketing and eCommerce? I think the key takeaway is to make sure you start with a customer experience. You start with the real value, and then, really, question like how does Web3 augment or improve those experiences and those KPIs for your customers? As iiNDYVERSE, we've taken a real long hard look at that. So none of our processes even mentioned Web3, even mentioned the term NFTs or wallets. It's purely in the background, but what it really focused on is how do you create, again, how do you create experiences that tell stories that people are engaging with, that they continue to come back and engage with to then drive those metrics? So I guess that's a key takeaway. Like the technology is just a technology. It's very cliche, we all know it. Technology enables, it doesn't create. So just keep that in mind, I would say.

- I see, okay, yeah, it's a good insight because, sometimes, people get very hung on the technology itself, but technology changes as well. So by the time you catch up with the latest technology, things may change a little bit, but you have to understand some of the fundamental things that you mentioned here to be successful. So thank you very much, Bryan. This was very helpful for me, and I hope for my audience. I appreciate the exciting conversation we had, and I also appreciate you coming on this podcast episode while you're still recovering from whatever cold or virus, we don't know, and I wish you all the best. I hope we get to speak again in a little different podcast episode in the future, but thank you very much.

- Yeah, and, obviously, Emil, great to be here. Thank you for having me. We've been around the block for some time. It's like we went to two different schools together so. Absolutely.

- Who knows, we're actually working together at some parts.

- We're always running into each other, always running into each other

- Yeah, exactly, all right.

- All right, thanks, Bryan.

- We're friends.

- Buh-bye.

- Cheers.